Sorry to introduce a few facts into the immigration debate, but ….



6 Responses to Sorry to introduce a few facts into the immigration debate, but ….

  1. Polls show that on average people think there are far more immigrants than there really are. – 31%

    – 31% of people polled thought there were far more immigrants, or
    – on average people thought there were 31% more immigrants than there really were?
    Presumably the latter, but that probably says something about people’s willingness to assume that someone who speaks with a foreign accent or who is not white is an immigrant.

    These sort of facts provoke so many other questions. For instance in Clacton, where apparently 47% are worried about immigration Daily Mail we find:

    As evidence of immigration as normally understood (i.e. non-British nationals coming to live in the UK) even this figure is reduced by the fact that the biggest group of the non-British-born, excluding those from Ireland, recorded Germany as their place of birth – 625 German-born compared to the next biggest group, Polish-born, with 473. The German-born figure includes a large number of people who were born in the 1950s and 60s to British armed forces personnel stationed in military basis in the Rhineland region at that time. A group of 713 Africa-born shows up in the census statistics, most being assumed to be people of Indian subcontinent descent – most being people born in Uganda and Kenya – who are part of the local business community.
    Migration Rights 1 September 2014 : A note on Clacton – Why the concern over migration?

    So in a constituency with a (2011) electorate of 67,447 Boundary Commission which when you include the unregistered (under 18’s and transitory unregistered etc.) probably equates to a population of around 100,000 give or take 10,000, the number of people who migrant-phobics regard as “foreign” must be vanishingly small. Yet when they go into Hospitals or Care homes they probably find that these institutions are being held together by a disproportionate number of staff who xenophobes would regard as, bluntly, aliens.

    The “fact” that they over estimate the number of migrants by only 31%, is I think unsurprising.

    Concern over immigration has to arise from two sources:
    – Racism, “pure” and very simple
    – A generalised concern about (i) strain on public services and (ii) competition for jobs and housing. The second will never be addressed by a government that believes in deregulation and small government as a mantra. And the first will never be addressed by a government that is so busy pandering to a party that is so appealing to the xenophobic.

    A government that believes in deregulation (or “light touch” if it must) will not enforce the Minimum Wage, the Working Time Directive, Health and Safety regulations or housing regulations. This makes the country a magnet for economic migrants. It’s not the migrants’ fault (they are just seeking a better life – and if from the EU doing so legally), it’s the government’s fault – they and their predecessors made the laws, they should ensure that they are enforced. Perhaps it is a deliberate yet covert policy to drive down labour costs in general so that companies can make bigger profits.

    I have no doubt that, particularly in the South East, public services (mainly health, education and what remains of social housing) are under strain due to population increases. Such increases are due to lower infant mortality in indigenous families, people living longer due to better health generally and migration from within and without the UK towards the economic sink hole that is London.

    The infographic above says the population of the Greater South East is 22.7m and has increased by 9.6% over an inter-census period of 10 years. That is a (compound) increase of 0.92% per year or about 209,000 in a year – and only 66,000 of this is accounted for by net migration – slightly under a third. Two thirds of the increase is due to internal factors.

    A small-minded “small-government” administration will not react to these changes – believing that the “market will provide”. They think either the market will provide extra resources (free schools, buy to rent properties etc.) or the market pressure of scarcity will dissuade people from wanting to live in the area. Even if I believed in market forces, I would have to accept that sometimes (like now) the state has to intervene and expand public services to match demand – or more radically address the region disparities within our country so that London does not continue to be the swallow hole that it is.

  2. Neil says:

    Its uncontrolled immigration UKIP are against and that’s exactly what we have in this country because our European borders are open to all. Those who support UKIP want a situation where we, the majority of the British people, determine the quantity and quality of all immigrants into our country. Not much to ask really. Pretty sensible actually. Tell me Julian, can you say what immigration totals will be in five year times from Europe into this country? No. of course you cant. So how on earth can we plan ahead. It’s a no brainer. An argument you cannot win Julian. And yes, I am an ex labour voter.

  3. Neil: I am far more relaxed about immigration than you evidently are. I am also unconcerned about emigration – and let’s face facts, there are far more Brits and their descendents living abroad than there are foreigners here.

    However, we do need some controls. Utlimately, the best cure for immigration is to make the countries where the immigrants come from as attractive as the UK. This is a matter of poverrty, and foreign aid addresses this. UKIP policy on foreign aid is to scrap it, which wil make the situation far worse.

  4. Neil says:

    UKIP will reduce foreign aid by 85%, so its wrong to say they will scrap it.

    With UKIP we will know exactly how many immigrants will be coming into the country in say 2019/20, because the figure will be pre-set. As things stand we have no idea how many immigrants will be coming in then – and all the other parties can do is gaze into a crystal ball. It is an appalling situation when we cannot forward plan for immigration numbers into this country, and common sense voters realise this and want something done about it. So voters are turning to UKIP, as the other parties are no longer fit for purpose. Relaxation for UKIP is not an option.

  5. With UKIP we will know exactly how many immigrants will be coming into the country in say 2019/20, because the figure will be pre-set.

    So our social services and education service and health service will safely be able to cope? And there will be sufficient jobs and housing for all?

    Trouble is we will not know exactly how many people will be born in the country in say 2019/20, because the figure cannot be pre-set. And we don’t know how many elderly people can fail to die in say 2019/20 because that figure cannot be pre-set either.

    Unless …

    I know, we must have birth rate control as well! No more than two children per couple – which will ensure a slowly declining population.

    Perhaps we should also seek to control longevity as well and ban health treatments targeted as say those over 80?

    The birth rate and longevity have a far greater effect on public services than net immigration.

    Control, Control, Control – it’s the only way forward! We have more chance of getting the trains to run on time.

  6. Neil says:

    The control aspect comes from the EU. Control of our citizens by the EU is exactly what UKIP is against. We reject the United States of Europe – the totalitarian tiptoe has been creeping up on us since the 1960s, and the final nails in our coffins are being applied. We should run ourselves – plain old common sense, to those with common sense.
    We cannot play Russian roulette with immigration into this country. We have to take control of our own destiny. We can create something amazing if we put our minds to it and free think. To end up with the narrow minded visions of Labour, Conservative and Lib Dems is an insult to human potential. The old parties are dying. Their days are numbered. A breath of fresh air is blowing through the lands. UKIP isn’t perfect but its the only choice we have at the moment to break free from the shackles of EU control. Once done we can create a country to be proud of.
    Setting immigration targets or allowing a free for all – its a no brainer.

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